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tv   Anderson Cooper 360  CNN  March 29, 2011 1:00am-2:00am EDT

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>> msaidn a moment. 'll also look niment we'll also look tonight in an incredibly disturbing incident th loo th loo that looked at a tripoli hotel full of journalists. this woman was dragged away by gadhafi officials, we have updates about what's happened since. i'll talk to nick robert son about it. the gadhafi regime has told multiple conflicting stories about that woman. they first denied that opposition even existed on gadhafi. then they blamed it on had a louis genics. >> we have trouble coming up with proof of any civilian casualties that we have been responsible for. but we do have a lot of intelligence reporting about gadhafi taking the bodies of people he's killed and putting them at the sites we've attacked. we've been extremely careful in
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this military effort. >> is it our job to take the defense secretary at his word? we have found that whenever the libyans take correspondents out claiming to show civilian casualties, they never seem to find them. all our camera crew ever saw was bombed out military equipment. and at a staged funeral, nic robertson discovered he couldn't find any grieving family members, and the coffins were not necessarily what they seemed. >> reporter: it was an occasion full of surprising moments. >> this is by far one of the biggest mass burials we've seen. but when one of the coffins here was opened that we saw, it was empty and quickly whisked away. >> an empty coffin and empty rhetoric from the gadhafi regime. you'd never know it by watching libyan state tv. this is what they were airing. colonel gadhafi never made an appearance. it was another bizarre scene orchestrated by a regime who
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finds the opposition forces closer than ever before. opposition forces have grabbed the mmomentum. saturday they got control of ashdabia. a stark reminder that without coalition air strikes, this advance west would not be possible. >> in tripoli on saturday, a bizarre scene at a hotel filled with international journalists. this woman burst in screaming she had been beaten and gang raped by gadhafi's forces. look what they did to me, she scis, my honor was violated by them. libyan officials initially claimed she was a mentally ill
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prostitute her family maintains she's a lawyer. government minders snatched her away, throwing a bag over her head. she was dragged to a waiting car. if you don't see me tomorrow, then that's it. despite massive attention to her plight and the government claims of her release, her family says she mains locked in a government compound and no journalist has seen or heard from her since. by sunday, opposition forces continued their push west, taking ras lanouf. new video appeared of opposition forces capturing gadhafi forces.
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>> the fate of the prisoners is unknown. on monday, opposition forces continued their march west toward gadhafi's hometown but on the way encountered resistance. their advance was halted at um al gadeel. opposition forces had to pull back to the town of bin jawad. in misrata, cnn was finely granted access and discovered a city destroyed. gadhafi's forces claim they control the town, our team was stopped a few miles from the center of the city, suggesting the battle continues as does the
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battle for the future of libya. later on the program we'll have an update on that woman dragged off by security forces. we heard from her family, we'll talk to correspondents who were there. earlier tonight i spoke with a spokesman in that town of misrata. how close is is the fighting? i'm seeing video of what looks like opposition forces with ak-47s in their hands, light weapons running around on the streets. how close do you get to gadhafi forces? i mean, is it house to house? street by street? >> sometimes you get so close, it's just a few meters away. other times, when there's a hostage situation involved, it becomes difficult to approach anyone. we are using multiple tactics at the moment. the way we tackle, by storming buildings, and just, you know,
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carrying out those sort of operations. just trying to target particular tanks, very narrow alleys and streets, and trying to push them to a place where it becomes difficult for them to return. >> let's check in with nic robertson and arwa damon. nic's been working very hard. he just got back today. ara is in ashdabiya today. >> the government claims they're in control of the city, what did you see when you went there today? >> you know, we got within a couple miles of the center of the city, and we were stopped at a progadhafi rally that had been completely organized for us. there was a state television
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satellite truck set up for these protesters who demonstrated in front. whenever we tried to film down the road, videotape toward where the opposition was in the city. people would come in front of us, wave their green flags, soldiers would walk in front of us, intentionally try to stop us filming. when we drove out of town, all those progadhafi supporters drove out behind us. they didn't live there. we couldn't get to the area where the opposition was, the government wouldn't let us get there, we had no idea the conditions that, what we did see, tanks under trees, hiding, we heard the opposition say they've been attacked by tanks. heavy artillery you may see on a battlefield maybe. indiscriminate type of weapon to use in an urban area. >> there's been a lot of excitement for the opposition forces and those who support them. we saw opposition forces retake
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the city of ashdabiya where you are tonight. they got close to serte, but you say their momentum has stopped. what happened? >> it most certainly seems to have, anderson. they got to the small town you mentioned earlier, it's about 60 miles to the east of serte. when they were entering, according to one opposition fighter, they began searching homes, they say they found a number of weapons that they believe gadhafi had handed out to residents in this neighborhood. they then say residents began shooting at them, and the opposition said they decided not to fire back because of concerns for civilian casualties. they said they were forced to retreat. as they were retreating, they came under a heavy barrage of
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gunfire. we saw them beating quite a hasty path away from this area. fire into the air, that gadhafi's military was trying to outflank them. we asked them what their next move was going to be. because they said they had to go back into this area and clear it. if the civilians have not evacuated, this has an entire new dynamic. if we start seeing pro and anti-gadhafi forces, civilians clashing in these neighborhoods, lots of bloodshed could be unimaginable. >> nic robertson in tripoli, what sort of reaction do you think the gadhafi regime will have to president obama's comments tonight. the president made very clear that the mission as he sees it, that nato is now going to be operating under, is not to remove gadhafi miltly, they want to try to get him out through nonmilitary means.
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is gadhafi breathing a sigh of relief tonight? >> you can believe that he is to a degree. but he's also incredibly cautious and won't take anything at face value, and will very likely continue to believe that the objective is to have him removed from power. so i think while he may feel he's dodged a bullet and the mission hasn't been broadened to regime change, it gives him an opportunity to recalibrate. but what's he going to do in that recalibration? decide he can push a little harder? take misrata? is he going to allow people in the government to use this breathing space for diplomacy. people in and around the government here recognize the need for change in the country, but it's probably not going to fall to them to make those key decisions. it's going to come back to moammar gadhafi.
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that's quite an unpredictable thing to say on this. >> at the first sign of resistance today that these opposition forces encountered, going through ashdabiya, through some of these other towns, they've gone through. it seems like they didn't have anybody to fight, because the gadhafi forces had been retreating. now they're facing some opposition, and at the first sign, they basically fall back. are they capable of actually taking over a town if they have to fight for it? >> well, anderson, that's going to be the big question. we have to remember that this is not a military port, this is a group of civilians who just learned how to fight in the last few weeks. they lack the basic military foundations, they lack discipline, they lack a concept of command and control. they lack the ability to move forward in a military formation, to go through and meticulously search house to house, clear the
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areas the way one wood if they had that type of military expertise. the other reason why it had been relatively easy for them to advance as far as they did. not only were these air strikes taking place, they were also moving through friendly territory, through cities and towns where the population either supported the opposition, or was, in fact, part of the opposition itself. now as they're moving into these more western pro-gadhafi tribal areas, they're going to encounter an entirely different kind of battle. this is going to turn into street-to-street combat where air strikes will not be able to provide support that the opposition is going to require. and where the use of air strikes will be questionable because of the civilian casualties, but it seems the civilian population would be caught between these two front lines as well. >> arwa damon, stay safe, be careful. nic, stick around, i want to talk to you and david kirkpatrick about the woman who
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alleged gang rape, went into the hotel where you all were staying. the gadhafi government does not want you to see this video of what happened to this woman. they told conflicting stories now of what they have done to her. we're going to try to figure out what is real and what is not. up next, we'll dig deeper into what the president said. did he send the right message abroad? and did he satisfy critics at home? we'll be right back. n more on m? well, hotels know they can't fill every room every day. like this one. and this one. and oops, my bad. so, they give expedia ginormous discounts with these: unpublished rates. which means i get an even more rockin' hotel, for less. my brain didn't even break a sweat. where you book matters. expedia.
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took to get to this point, to the year it took to stop the atrocities in bosnia. many thought he should have acted faster, among them, john mccain who spoke with wolf blitzer after the president's address. >> he laid out the reasons why it was important to intervene and what would have happened in benghazi. and many of us are convinced if we had taken that action three weeks earlier, just declaing a no-fly zone, it would have had a similar effect. >> it's clear we're acting on the side of the rebels, and that we can, by keeping up the sustained pressure and movement, that gadhafi can be removed. if we tell gadhafi, don't worry, you're not going to be removed by force, i think that that's very encouraging to gadhafi. and so i believe that the rebels, as i predicted are succeeding because we negated the air power and the armor capabilities of gadhafi, and
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we're rapidly on the road to success. the president's remarks that what he really doesn't emphasize is that the united states leads. there are times when we have to act alone. there are many other times where we have the time and the luxury of assembling coalitions and acting together, and we always want to act in partnership. when president reagan attacked tripoli, he didn't ask anyone, he didn't assemble a coalition. when we went into panama to remove noriega, we didn't asell bell a coalition. there are times when the united states has to have a coalition of people who are willing to join us. but america leads and america remains the leader of the world. >> john mccain and president obama. house speaker john boehner weighing in, saying the speech did not provide americans with much clarity. joining us now, david gergen, and ann marie slaughter.
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also with us, professor faoud ajami. and ari fleischer. fouad, what do you think? >> i think the president did a great job. i'm not a fan of president obama, i didn't vote for him. i think he should have done this much earlier. but the second guessing -- he laid out, if you want to call it the obama doctrine of intervention, fine. if you want something less ambitious, fine? he did it, and he told us the truth, this was always about benghazi, a rescue operation he was forced to do. i think it's the right thing. >> ann marie slaughter, what did you make? some of the big questions out there about the mission in libya, what's the goal of the u.s.? what's the exit strategy? how will the u.s. military be involved? are these all questions he sufficiently answered? >> i think did he. if he's getting criticized that
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heavily from left and right, he's striking a balance. he made clear that we went in to avoid what he described as violence on a horrific scale in benghazi, that again the mandate of the u.n. coalition that nato is now leading is to protect libyan civilians, i think that makes very clear what success looks like there, it means that libyan civilians are safe, safe in their houses, safe in their cities. at the same time, he made very clear that it is u.s. policy, and the policy of many of our allies. that libya needs to have a new government that responds to the demands of the libyan people. and we will pursue every diplomatic and economic means to that end and leveling the play be field militarily will certainly help. >> if he removes his forces from
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around misrata, pulls back troops to tripoli, and has all these armed civilians in serte and other places, can the u.s., can nato continuesing air support to try to route his forces from tripoli? it doesn't seem like it? >> the very fact that you nor a has the answer too that question, i think underscores the weakness of the obama speech. i thought in general, he made a compelling case. a very strong case for intervention itself. on humanitarian grounds. he made a compelling case that the united states has helped to organize the international coalition, much more rapidly as has happened in the past, like bosnia. he made a compelling case that these early u.s. actions have done what the u.s. promised to do. that's where the success of the speech ended. because he left open all these questions about where we go from here.
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if there's a stalemate, and there were signs today that there may be a stalemate. what are we going to do? what is nato going to do? who knows? i don't think anybody knows that. what happens if gadhafi gets forced out? if the regime cracks, they turn on him and assassinate him. what's the united states role going to be in building a new libya? i thought that was left cloudy, and is going to continue the debate. give president obama his due. on the most important issue that he had to face tonight, why he went in. i thought he made a very, very strong case. i agree with fouad and ann marie on that. >> do you believe he made many things unsaid? >> i think it's not necessarily the things unsaid, it's the problems on the ground are tremendous still. because i think the likelihood is, we are going to end up in a stalemate. the tricky thing here is, when you have a president that does the right thing, but does it four weeks too late, can you really say it is the right thing. this is something that should
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have been done four weeks ago, when it was really likely that the rebels by virtue of america's action could have tipped the scales, and made gadhafi think the time is up, he needs to get out of there. i have a hard time seeing that happen now. this finish ends up in a stalemate. the rebels will make what limited progress they can make. i think the other reason we're going to end up in stalemate here, the nato sword is nowhere near as sharp as the tip of america's sword. it's good that nato is leading. it also makes it more likely we will have a stalemate. this is the difficulty we face now and why we should have reacted four weeks ago. i'm glad he went in. it should have been done much earlier. >> is it too early to talk about a stalemate? >> it's too early to go anywhere near there. >> the question of what happens
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now, you're saying? >> history's open ended here, what you have, in fact, the president doesn't bear this burden alone. there are two men, there are two powerful men, sarkozy and david cameron, who have pledged themselves to the removal of moammar gadhafi. think of france, it's a great power, it's a mediterranean power. you can draw a line from marseilles to tripoli. nato has become the air force of the opposition to gadhafi. that's what nato will be doing. we talk about, there is a nato -- a u.n. charter, u.n. limits on what we can do. this opposition has an air force to back it. you can see the course of battle is coming closer to tripoli, and you will have to see what happens to these dictators. we will test whether he's loved in serte. this is his hometown. is he really loved there? is he loved in tripoli?
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will the crowd hang him when they catch him? that's the fate of most of these dictators. so long as the opposition was fighting alone and living alone they had no hope whatsoever. he was coming for them in benghazi, now they are moving into his territory. that has been achieved. the american investment has been modest. let the british and the french come in, let the qatari's come in. make it an international initiative which it's become. >> i see david gergen, you're shaking your head, why? >> i love fouad ajami, i think his analysis are so cogent. when sarkozy or cameron commit themselves, that matters in europe, but not to the world. when the president of the united states commits to a course of action, that matters to the world. if he pledges he's going to get rid of gadhafi, and he does not succeed at that, it's going to
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matter a lot, as you know, and have a ripple effect in many parts of the world. >> ann marie, have we just sided in a civil war? is nato the air force for opposition forces? and to fouad's point, that would seem to put a lot of the emphasis president obama put on the security councilman date and the limits of it, it would seem to nullify what he said? >> well, i still don't think we have evidence that it's a civil war. i mean, within just over a week, the rebels have regained virtually all the territory that they had. there's still intense fighting in misrata, they've regained all the towns other than that that they have been pushed out of. serte is his hometown. if you're going to expect support for him anywhere, you're going to expect it there. the real issue is whether or not we can change the balance on the ground so that the people of tripoli feel that they can rise
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up themselves, which was happening early on, and he then managed to crack down and terrify people into submission again. i don't think we have evidence of a civil war, i don't think we have evidence of people who has 40 years of a dictator. i have to disagree with david, as much as i respect him. honestly, nato is leading this, nato is the most powerful alliance in the world, it is joined by the uae, by qatar, by the entire mediterranean community is fighting. that is plenty. the world is seeing that it isn't just the united states that does this. and i think the president was at his most compelling when he said, look, we're not the global policeman. in the 21st century, what we do as a leader is to create the
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coalitions and the conditions for others to participate, for others to step up. that's really what the american people wanted to hear. >> you wanted to hear more from the president on the u.s. policy toward other countries in the middle east? >> that's right. when you listen to the president and the humanitarian reasons we went in, to prevent slaughter in benghazi. how could you not agree with president obama on that. the problem is,it also translates to syria. i hope assad falls if syria. the world would be a better place if he did. he helped send fighters in to kill our troops in iraq. in syria, where they're shooting people on the streets in cold blood, what will president obama do if that egs ka lates as well? i would have liked to see him talk about the arab uprising means and what the united states policy will be toward our friends and enemies. what do we do about bahrain, syria, jordan. there's a bigger story here that's playing itself out, and we still need to know what the president thinks and means to do about that. it's the job of the president to
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put it together. >> i think the president did make a big connection. and for the first time, between the events in libya, and the arab spring. if we let this man win in libya, what message do we send to the other tyrants and other auto krats, we should be modest what we expect from a 30 minute speech. he can't explain the entire history of the middle east. he can tell us what the stakes are in libya, and he's done so very effectively, in my view. >> thank you very much. we're going to talk about syria.
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we know the gadhafi regime is brutal. it's rare you see the brutality captured up close. we will tell you what happened to a woman who said she was gang raped over the weekend. saturday morning, she risked her life by storming into a tripoli hotel to tell journalists her story of brutality. they say we're all libyans, she screams, look what gadhafi brigades did to me. plain clothed government officials immediately intervene. this man tries to grab her and shut her up. her face bruised. she said she's from benghazi and was abducted at a government checkpoint, beaten, raped.
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she shows journalists blood on her inner thigh and rope burns on her hands and feet. my honor was violated she cries out. many at the hotel try to separate her from the men trying to drag her away. this man appears to be going for a weapon. gadhafi's men kick and punch journalists, wrestling some of them to the ground. breaking their cameras for their footage. the woman continues to cry out her story. watch as this woman throws a dark bag over her head to silence her. a little while later she surfaces as officials drag her out of the hotel. >> if you don't see me tomorrow,
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then that's it, she screams. >> where are you taking her to now. >> journalists tried to come to her aide one last time. but she's shoved in a car and taken away. incredibly upsetting. nic robertson, david kirkpatrick have been on the story from the beginning. they join us now. if her story is true, it's hard to say how much courage it took for this woman to speak up like this. you consider the wounds she displayed, how she was treated, taken out of the hotel. it's a reminder the kind of brutality the gadhafi regime seems capable of. what do we know about what's happened to her? >> we don't know anything. my understanding is that her family -- and this is my understanding from nic's reporting, my understanding is that her family is standing by her, we've had a series of contradictory characterizations in her case from the libyan government.
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the initial responsible from a spokesman was, she seems drunk, probably insane, we're going to investigate her claims, fan tasscys. later that day, the spokesman said she seems sane, sober, she has a criminal case, not a political case. hopefully she'll be able to talk to us soon. the next morning, the reason was character assassination, she was a prostitute, with a long record. again she said she and her family would be offered an opportunity to speak with us. we haven't heard from her, her family hasn't heard from her. and certainly the shift in tactics to character asags nation is not promising. >> i want to play video of you confronting one of the government spokes men about her. >> nic, please, could we just to respect her, her daughter, her family. this is a very conservative society. could we not expose her in public, please?
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if i said something, i said what i knew. i don't want to repeat anything i said. i'm not withdrawing what i said. i don't want to make it even more known, even more public. this is a criminal case. >> the guy who's calling her a prostitute is now saying, out of respect for her, we shungtd see any more. we've seen demonstrations in two opposition held towns in support of her, people not shying away from what she said had happened to her, but in fact coming out and demonstrating in support her, what have you learned, what have you heard about her whereabouts or how her family's reacting? >> we really don't know of her whereabouts right now. and it's going to be very, very difficult to find out, essentially the government's placed the onus on to us by saying they released her. we don't know exactly where that would be, and we're not free to travel around. there's a good chance wherever
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she is, there will be security outside, so we won't get in. we're hearing that her family has rallied around her, video on youtube this evening that purports to be her father and her groom at an engagement party in her absence. what this means is that the family is saying, they support her, that her honor is still in tact, which is hugely important here in this part of the world. that her honor is in tact, and she can be respected. indeed in some cultures, people would say, after she had been through that, she should be killed. it goes beyond that. her future husband is from her tribe as well. that's a statement from her tribe saying they still honor and respect her. which really throws it back in the face of the gadhafi regime. we're seeing her family and her tribe rally behind her, which will be hugely important for her, because we still don't know where she is, and what state she's in, anderson.
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>> david, she had said that she was being held captive with other women, there were other people who had also been held captive. do we know anything about them? >> reuters reached someone here in tripoli who appeared to be a cousin and listed the names of three female lawyers who they said had also been taken with her. she's said to have been stopped at a checkpoint by gadhafi militia here near tripoli. she's from benghazi initially. i don't know any more about those women. >> how frustrating is it, just as a reporter, and a human being to be in this situation where one wants to defend this person, and yet one is sort of power will to do anything about it. >> well, i think you hit the nail on the head, i mean, we're powerless in many ways, yet we do collectively, as reporters have some power.
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and also some moral responsibility to do what we can for another human, and i think that's what we're trying to do. but look, in all of this, to follow up on her case, the other people, these other three lawyers who she reports being with her. we sort of almost lost sight of them, that's just the handful of people we know about, i mean, our taxi driver a couple weeks ago, taken into custody. is he really released as people have told us? the frustrating thing is,there are so many people you want to follow up on, and you don't get a straight answer as we're seeing, it sort of -- one half truth that leads to another half truth, that you can't really prove or disapprove, people discredited. it adds up to frustration, but it adds up to determination. we will do what we can, i think, collectively we've witnessed something over the weekend that will be with us for many years, and it's a stark reminder for us, everything that people fear
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about from this regime, wanting to speak out, wanting to have a free voice, but being closed down. >> i think it may have been in a story you had written, david, but suddenly it seemed like hotel staff, people who were waiters all of a sudden turned out to be government agents or be involved in this? >> yeah, you know, it's true, i sort of assumed libya being libya, that a good number of the hotel staff were paid government informants or worked for the government in some way, it was breathtaking to see a sweet young woman from a coffee bar throw a coat over her head. just like a bag, wraps it around her head and trying to pull her away. that young woman has been redeployed, we haven't seen her since then. >> it's stunning, so disturbing. and we should all not forget what has happened to imam al
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badi. we'll continue to follow up. stay safe. coming up, new protests, new violence in syria. and a familiar refrain from the government, the deadly violence is the work of foreigners, thugs. government forces firing at peaceful protesters, we'll have the latest. we're going to talk to a huan rights activist in syria. new images showing the force of the tsunami that hit japan as a wall of water rolls through the city of kesanuva. [ marge ] psst. constipated? phillips' caplets use magnesium, an ingredient that works more naturally with your colon than stimulant laxatives, for effective relief of constipation without cramps. thanks. [ professor ] good morning students. today, we're gonna... but actually, it's easier than you think, because general mills big g line of cereals is america's number one source of whole grain at breakfast.
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security forces in syria flooded the town of dahra today. this is new video from youtube, the syrian government is blaming deadly violence on everything from an unnamed foreign group to armed thugs. a possible move to appease protesters, the syrian government announced they'll lift a state of emergency law that has been in effect for 48 years. the law gives authorities to make arrests whenever they want. there's no timetable for that emergency law being lifted. many see it as a trick saying other laws give power to the secret police. at least 37 people have died in
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clashes between protesters and security forces since last week. earlier today i spoke on the phone with wisen tariff who has agreed to speak with us, but also insists we use his name. we can't independently confirm what he's telling us, syria has repeatedly denied cnn entrance to the country. the army has been deployed on the streets, how scared are people? are people still willing to come out and protest? >> well, what's happening is much worse. because two nights ago, the security forces in syrian homes invaded the city. they tried to bring fear to the neighborhoods. >> and you've seen videos of security forces changing clothes and attacking people, yes?
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>> oh, yes, of course. the particulars that's happened -- there are videos of the security forces changing their clothes and just beating people to death in damascus as they send security forces -- they're beating people to death. in duba, four people were beaten to death. why don't they allow us -- why don't they allow syria human rights groups. they have a long history of doing the job. access to the cities and do some serious work, i think, if they are serious about this, they would allow us to work. they detained five human rights lawyers in the last few hours, it's getting worse here, not better.
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>> i have to ask you again. you want us to use your name, you tell us five people you know, five human rights activists have been arrested just in the last 48 hours. why are you so insistent on talking and getting the word out? >> human rights defenders, i owe them, at this time, they are not able to do their job, i have to do it for myself, and it's a lot of people are doing it. and it's normal. there is an element of risk. but we have to do it, we're uprising, we're changing, we're witnessing history. history is happening in our region. history is happening in syria. we want to free them. we want to build a free country. we want to express ourselves, we want dignity. we want to be able to say what we think. this is the minimum. we are in the 21st century, and they're running the country as
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if we're in the 8th century or even the middle ages. this has to change, and it's my job and other people's job who have the opportunity to travel, to see the world to do this, otherwise, who will do it? >> i'm stunned by your courage and i thank you for talking to us. please be careful. >> take care, anderson. >> incredible bravery. we've been mentioning that cnn has been applying for visas to go to syria for more than a week now, those requests have been repeatedly denied. now the syrian government is not responding to our requests. coming up, more ominous news from the damaged nuclear power plant in japan. words like possible leak, damaged containment structure, not what the people of japan necessarily want to hear. an incredibly new look at
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if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. > we planned to bring you up to date on the latest in yemen, we ran out of time. we'll do that tomorrow. some of the most arresting images we've seen of the tsunami that struck japan's northeast coach on march 11th. watch as this city is basically washed off the map. [ sirens ]
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>> 73,000 people lived in the town, tonight the death toll from the quake and tsunami still climbing, nearly 11,000 confirmed dead, 17,000 still unaccounted for. in japan, government officials said contaminated water overflow is a threat as workers try to cool reactors at the fukushima daiichi nuclear power plant. reactor number two may be
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damaged and leaking nuclear material. forrer president jimmy carter advise i9s cuba. he's there with his wife on what's described as a private three-day visit. stocks fell reacting to ongoing global turmoil.